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Join us for another episode of Enformed Insights, where we interview industry experts and gain personal insights into how they find success in their fields. In this episode, we sit down with special guest, Sabiha Tudesco, as we discuss how businesses are navigating the complexities of modern data management and regulatory compliance while providing practical tips for sustainable growth and innovation.
We recorded this interview in early January. On Friday, January 24, 2025, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit vacated the Federal Communications Commission’s (FCC) One-to-One Consent Rule, which was set to take effect on January 27, 2025. This rule would have required consumers to provide separate consent for each individual seller before receiving telemarketing or advertising robocalls, and mandated that such calls be “logically and topically associated” with the interaction that prompted the consent. The court determined that the FCC exceeded its statutory authority under the Telephone Consumer Protection Act (TCPA) by imposing these additional consent restrictions, as they conflicted with the ordinary statutory meaning of “prior express consent.”
Foley & Lardner LLP – Earlier that same day, the FCC had issued an order postponing the effective date of the One-to-One Consent Rule by 12 months, or until the Eleventh Circuit issued a decision on the pending legal challenge, whichever came sooner. However, the court’s ruling to vacate the rule rendered the postponement moot.
Federal Communications Commission – As a result, businesses are not required to implement the One-to-One Consent Rule, and the previous standards for obtaining consumer consent for telemarketing and advertising robocalls remain in effect.Tune into this new episode as we dive into the future of marketing and lead acquisition, and how your company can stay ahead of the curve.
Key Discussion Points:
Enformed Insights Episode 8 Transcript
00:00
Alex
Welcome to Informed Insights, the official podcast of Enformion.com and your guide to the world of public information and data analysis. Joining us today on Informed Insights is Sabiha Tudesco, a dynamic leader with over 20 years of experience in sales, marketing and operations specializing in lead generation.
Based in Madison, New Jersey, Sabia has built an impressive career in the fast paced world of Manhattan, where she’s become known for her ability to tackle challenges, foster meaningful connections, and deliver strategic solutions.
We’re thrilled to have Sabia here to share her insights and experiences in the world of lead generation and marketing innovation. Now, here is your host, Fred Fifer.
00:42
Fred
Sabia thank you so much for joining Informed Insights. Can you share a bit about your career journey and how you got to where you are today?
Sabiha
Of course, of course, yeah. I began my career over 20 years ago stepping into an account management role within the sales department, and I quickly discovered my passion for the marketing industry.
01:00
And it’s a passion that continues to grow to this day because I am still working in the industry. Every step of my journey has truly been invaluable from the companies that you know, I’ve had the privilege to work with, work for, and also to the incredible people that have supported me along the way. I’ve been – I’ve embraced every opportunity and role, often wearing many, many hats and sales and marketing and operations, business development, but always within the lead generation industry.
01:26
It’s really been, you know, a cornerstone of my professional growth and something that’s, you know, always mattered to me within my career journey is, you know, I’ve always prioritized honesty and accountability and the opportunity to learn while bringing value to others throughout my experience – and I’ve been able to be able to do that and to be able to kind of have those values throughout my career journey.
01:53
So those things are some things that matter a lot to me. But I you know, what I really love about being in, marketing and specifically within lead generation is, is how fast paced it is and how collaborative it is. But, you know, again, I really started an account management and a sales function.
I started to understand what it meant to, to onboard, you know, a buyer, you know, working and working with a buyer, working with a budget, delivering on time, ensuring the buyer is happy, managing the accounts, finding opportunities for upselling, cross-sell, which then, you know, gave me the opportunity to learn more about the media side and the traffic
02:34
that’s driving the budget for that buyer. And then opened my world into more of the traffic and the publisher side of things – and I have had the opportunity, honestly, in parallel to, to grow my experience, expertise and relationships and working with both buyers as well as, publishers, data partnerships, and different, you know, partners in that sense and all while, having an account management background and operational background and also just understanding how things work.
03:05
So I work very well with, you know, the development teams, the product teams, the operations teams, and legal on account and accounting and all the different departments that make, you know, lead generation work, right?
Having those relationships both internally with those departments, with the people that make things work. Getting to know my partners externally, whether it’s a buyer or a traffic source, and just understanding the ebbs and flows and all the changes that that occur with and lead generation, it’s definitely – there’s definitely been a lot going on within the industry. But I, I still enjoy it every single day. And, it’s crazy to say that I’ve been doing it for 20 years now.
03:43
Fred
So what drew you to the lead generation and marketing industry, and what excites you most about your work today?
Sabiha
What really drew me to the industry is I love how fast paced it is, go getter and, you know, in my professional career as well as outside of work, I really, constantly in sixth gear, and I would say in order to really thrive in this industry, you do have to know how to be be able to handle the fast paced environment and be able to handle change.
04:18
And, you know, all the different ebbs and flows and bobs and weaves that come along. And, there’s a lot of, you know, mental strength that’s required with that. And I think what allows me to do well in the, in the industry and in my roles is that I’m also I care very much about being active physically.
04:40
And I, I take what I, what I learn, as an athlete and I put a lot of that into my day to day, within marketing and I and that’s a lot of that is just consistency and, and holding myself accountable to things. And what I like about lead generation as it’s, there’s very much like a funnel that that’s involved and there’s lots of like puzzles and pieces to the puzzle.
05:05
And I think if you are always asking questions and collecting information, you could generally make something work within lead generation. And I love lead generation because I love understanding, like the full picture, what drives success, what drives change within lead generation and how to collaborate with people, throughout all of that.
And then while not only just, you know, making something happen in a fast paced environment and being able to do it with other people, I also really understand I love understanding the consumer aspects, like consumer behavior behind things.
05:41
If I’m working with a new buyer, I want to understand who is their consumer. If I’m their consumer and I’m receiving their emails or their text messages or their phone calls, what kind of messages are they sending me? How are they speaking to me as a consumer?
So I really like understanding the full picture to be able to be effective, within the industry. And I think that’s what’s allowed me to do so within lead-gen.
06:04
But again, what draws me to the space is really, collaboration, being able to do things extremely quickly, working with data, getting an understanding on what’s working and coming up with new solutions for optimizations after that.
But I think, you know, lead generation, it’s you know, most businesses operating within it have a lot of real time analytics and reporting and are using AI. It just continues to evolve and be even faster. I just I just love the pace of of how the industry operates.
06:35
Fred
In your view, what have been the most significant changes and lead industry over the past few years?
Sabiha
In my view, some of the most recent changes have been obviously with data and privacy and compliance. There’s lots of new regulations like GDPR and CCPA that have been prioritizing consent and transparency and, you know, ensuring secure data practices, really requiring all businesses involved to adapt and remain compliant.
And that’s a really big thing for everyone involved. Also, not only that, but most businesses and buyers are now starting to engage in omnichannel strategies, engaging and buying leads.
07:16
And not only just 1 or 2 channels, but in different channels like social media and email and paid ads and other conversational tools and, like chat bots. So there’s been change like that. There’s also been more change around, you know, there’s constant need for good quality.
But a big change that I’ve seen over the past few years is driving quality through content, driven lead generation. So, you know, showing the consumer the value first of an offering, providing more information like an like, info like kind of more of an avatar trial before a consumer actually is getting to like a lead form.
07:55
I think that’s been something that a lot of people have been, you know, really leaning into and testing more. Also, you know, buyers are, are changing the way that they are buying. They’re starting to really research, you know, their consumers and their strategies and, and what’s working, and what’s driving for, you know, long term success. So, I think what’s super important is just continuing to have really great relationships with your buyers.
So as their behavior changes, you can continue to evolve your business to meet their needs because it is continuing to be a quality over quantity game more now than ever.
08:34
And obviously, there’s the decline of third party cookies. You know, businesses are having to shift to first party data and, you know, alternative, tracking. So that’s, you know, a big thing.
And then, you know, a lot of companies are also getting more into social selling, selling into, you know, different platforms like, you know, Instagram and Facebook and even LinkedIn now. So it’s just constantly the need to evolve. But I really think, you know, the biggest thing has been 100% on the data privacy and compliance side.
09:07
Fred
The FCC changes in January to 2025 are a hot topic. How do you think these updates will reshape the lead generation landscape?
Sabiha
Well, you know, ideally these changes are put into place to enhance, you know, consumer protection and ensure greater transparency, you know, in marketing practice and practices. And it’s something that you hope has already been in place and a lot of ways. So it’s going to require everyone involved to really clean up their act in a way.
And I do think that’s going to cause, you know, a lot of disruption across the industry. And I can’t say I know exactly what’s going to happen, and I don’t think anyone knows. But I definitely think, you know, there’s a there’s a lot of factors, you know, involved with the changes. Obviously there’s the 1 to 1 consent requirement.
10:01
You know, businesses must obtain explicit and individual consent from consumers. And in each seller that’s being represented. So, you know, there’s the need for enhanced transparency. You know, clear disclosures need to, you know, are required. And companies are, you know, required to be, you know, listed clearly about who the seller is. So the consumer knows exactly, you know, who the granting consent to.
And then, you know, they’re stricter compliance, measures, meaning, you know, accountable, right? These role these rules, all these rules, everyone’s accountable lead generators call centers. Third, you know, all the brokers, everyone involved needs to really follow the rules.
10:40
It’s just a matter of everyone understanding, I think, what’s in front of them and how to tackle the changes, and best kind of navigate through.
But overall it’s the biggest change. You know I would say is the amount of operational adjustments that need to be made across every single company involved to be able to, to manage this change. So it’s going to be a lot of work for everyone. And I guarantee you and a lot of companies, they’re dealing with less resources.
So it’s tricky. It’s tricky right now.
11:11
Fred
You know, I do speak with several CMO and marketing directors on a weekly basis, and there is a bit of uncertainty and how a marketing mix will change as a result of these 1 to 1 consent changes. Where do you foresee marketers potentially shifting their advertising dollars?
Sabiha
That’s a really great question.
I’m going to kind of go back to one of my answers earlier. I could see, marketers shifting to just other avenues, like, you know, social marketing and getting into native channels or potentially looking into CTV and getting into TikTok and, you know, going back to, again, like you said, direct mail and just seeing, you know, what other channels out there exist that could allow them to ensure that they’re, you know, there are no 1 to 1 consent issues.
12:01
I think because things are so gray, buyers are just so uncertain and are almost just like kind of slowly backing away because they just don’t know how to if they’re going to be safe. But I think it’s really on, you know, their partners that are driving leads to ensure that they’re safe and display, you know, how they’re handling that, their best practices and their opt in practices.
And the enhanced transparency and showing clear disclosures and just basically marking every single checkbox that they are doing everything that’s required to provide that 1 to 1, you know, consent to the brands that they’re working with.
12:38
So I definitely think the form of media that we’re all very familiar with can very much exist, but everyone needs to be very transparent and ensure that they’re completely buttoned up and working with their legal teams to, you know, make sure that they’re abiding by all rules to be able to press forward.
But I do think that that media will be more expensive. I do think that the volume, you know, will be lower within this channel. And I do think for those reasons alone, it’s going to cause people to want to shift and test new channels. And in doing that, you know, it’s going to you’re going to have to be able to put a workflow in place to be able to launch a new channels and track a new channels quickly.
So that’s where, again, I say those operational adjustments really come into play.
13:22
Fred
Can you expand a little bit on how these rule changes could potentially affect, like email marketing, using email as a primary mode of identifying and advertising to a consumer? Can you do you have any like, details on these changes, how that affects the email outreach specifically?
Sabiha
Email outreach, I think is very much still, a very, a very viable, form of marketing. And, and one that also requires consent. Consumers saying, you know, I’m giving my information on signing up. I agreed to receive, you know, third party email marketing. They do have to give their consent and then they start to receive, you know, emails in their inbox.
14:05
If brands start to get more heavily involved in email marketing and generating and using that form of practice to generate leads, it could mean they run into inbox issues and deliverability issues that sometimes can happen with an email. So it could lead to other things that I think buyers would need to understand how to operate, within that channel, you know, call center, email, SMS, every avenue of marketing has their own kind of hurdles that you face.
Right? So I think if you scale within email marketing, you just have to kind of be aware of the best practices when marketing to consumers and how to best inbox.
14:44
But I think as long as you are also obtaining that 1 to 1 consent, that’s required for, generating, you know, an email opt in, then it’s a very viable channel.
And still one that many consumers look to every single day throughout their day for deals and news and all the types of things.
15:06
Fred
How important is first party data in light of these regulatory shifts?
Sabiha
First party data is becoming critically important in light of the regulatory shifts. Particularly, as you know, the FCC’s 2025 updates are tightening rules around consumer consent and transparency.
You know, main reasons why regulatory compliance, obviously, with stricter regulations, require an explicit 1 to 1 consent for each seller relying on that first party data, information that’s, you know, collected directly from for your audience ensures that businesses are staying compliant. Since data is gathered directly from users with clear opt in consent, it reduces the risks of violating any FCC rules or similar regulations like GDPR and CCPA.
15:52
Like I mentioned earlier. Also, you know, reliability and trust, first party data is extremely reliable and transparent becomes it because it comes directly from the source, which is, you know, your audience. Unlike third party data, it’s often aggregated or resold. First party data. And, you know, it really enables a clear understanding of where and how and why the consent was obtained.
So it builds the trust with the consumer. And it’s that’s vital in an environment where regulations are are meant to empower them. Also things to consider, you know, mitigating third party data limitations. So first party data positions businesses to thrive without relying on intermediaries. So companies that build strong first party data strategies can maintain high quality leads while avoiding voiding regulatory pitfalls.
16:40
When you’re dealing with third parties, there’s just always that chance for unknown. When you’re working, you know, directly first party, you know exactly what’s happening extremely transparent. And then also, you know, biggest thing, you’re going to get higher quality leads.
That’s a really great thing with some of these changes that are coming into play with the accountability, the need for transparency, all the new regulations, you know, first party data allows businesses to personalize outreach based on accurate self supply consumer information, which generally results in higher quality leads, and that generally results in better conversion rates.
17:16
And as marketing efforts are tailored generally to interested prospects. So really focusing in honing in on first party data, it allows you to get really creative and use AI and put lots of interesting ab test and marketing strategies in play, whether it’s an email marketing strategy or an SMS strategy or direct mail strategy. So, you know, overall, I think it’s great to consider that this we do hope that these changes do allow for higher quality leads.
17:45
Fred
I work with a lot of clients who provide us their first party data, and we take a look and analyze it and see what we see correct and what’s wrong – and I’m constantly surprised at the amount of even with devoted a devoted following, a devoted customer base, how much of the first party data is outdated? You know, like we recently did a review of a client and, we found about 30% of their either their name, their email, primary, their email, phone or physical address were incorrect just due to the velocity change.
And, you know, so how would you advise, like a CMO or owner of a business who does collect first party data, does a good job of collecting it to kind of keep up with that change?
18:26
Sabiha
I do think data hygiene is needed because it’s just going to allow for, you know, better practices all together, especially, you know, when it comes to email verification, if you try to mail to, you know, an inactive email address or get a bounce back or one that’s just, you know, again, like I said, someone hasn’t opened in three months.
It’s going to hurt your deliverability. So if you are not cleansing your data as you’re acquiring it, to ensure it is all as accurate as possible before you start marketing to it, you could run into a lot of issues which will, you know, prevent you from being successful. So I do really believe that data hygiene practices and working with third parties is it’s highly recommend it.
Yes, it does, you know, additional cost. But at the end of the day, it’s the cost of not cleansing your data and ensuring that your marketing to the most accurate consumers is, is going to be way more. So. Yeah, there’s a lot of really great lead and call verification companies out there.
19:29
Fred
What role will technology and I play in helping businesses remain compliant while still driving growth?
Sabiha
Oh gosh, such and such a huge role. I think if you really take the time to learn new technology and learn about AI and see how it could help your business and empower people on your team to understand how it can empower your business, it could bring huge value – and as I mentioned earlier, you know, there’s so many operational adjustments that we’re all working through right now.
And, and I imagine with less resources, working with more technology and more AI allows you to do things with less people and in a way more effective manner.
20:15
But there is a learning curve. So you do have to set the time aside to learn something new and to train your team on new AI developments that your team should consider based off, you know, different goals you may be setting within the organization.
So I think it’s going to be crucial, and I think I can be used in so many aspects throughout the regulatory changes. How you’re how you’re collecting consents to, you know, how you’re validating records to how you’re, you know, delivering data, analyzing data. So yes, I think it’s going to be continue to be on the forefront within lead generation.
20:49
Fred
What advice would you give to companies preparing for the upcoming changes?
Sabiha
I think my the advice that I would give to companies is to, to be honest with your peers and your colleagues about the changes and how you know they’re going to affect the business and, and the different operational adjustments that need to be met.
To, to adhere to, to the changes of the future. So being honest and holding everyone accountable and ensuring that everything gets done and implemented and tested in a timely fashion is extremely important right now.
21:28
I definitely think it’s a time where everyone really has to roll up their sleeves and keep their ears and eyes open, maybe a little bit more than normal, because there’s a lot of change that’s happening.
And I think everyone really needs to work together to get through it. I definitely think it’s going to be uncomfortable. So I think we all just need to put on our big, you know, big girl and big boy pants and work through it together and be honest about what we’re facing and being able to work through and pivot and bob and weave, as changes could occur every single day in any moment of any day.
22:03
Fred
Looking ahead, what trends do you think will define the next phase of lead generation and consumer data management?
Sabiha
What trends? You know, I think honestly, the trends of buyers continuing to want to understand who their audiences and know how to find them and unique ways and communicate them in a way that the consumer wants to be communicated to.
So, you know, I think brands need to continue to think consumer first, which is obviously, very in line with a lot of these, these changes. I think brands need to be willing to always have budgets set aside to test new things. And in doing that, they need to have a team that’s able to onboard and test new things quickly.
22:49
I think that’s something that’s really important, is that ability to continue to enhance your omnichannel buying strategies, to never put everything in one basket, I think is really, really important. And again, I think to just continue to ensure that everything that everyone that’s working on this initiative within the organization, or if it involves the entire organization that they’re really communicating and working together to work through the changes.
23:19
Fred
Lastly, on a more personal note, what’s one lesson or insight that guided you throughout your career?
Sabiha
Oh gosh, I think is before you say yes to something and that could be yes to a project, yes to growing a team and hiring., yes to taking a new job, yes to commuting in the office four days versus three days – Making sure that you have all of the information and that you’ve asked all the questions and that everyone has the right to ask questions and have all the information to make informed decisions.
23:59
I would think I would say that’s my best advice, is to not jump to the yes, I think it’s so much more important to always evaluate every single decision that we’re making to ensure that we’re making the most informed decision, and we could feel good about that. And if we decide that that’s a no, that we feel good about that, too.
So I think just collecting data, asking questions before making decisions in life is, is something that I would that I would recommend.
24:33
Alex
We recorded this interview in early January of 2025. On Friday, January 24th, the US Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit vacated the Federal Communication Commission’s 1 to 1 consent rule, which was set to take effect on January 27th.
This rule would have required consumers to provide separate consent for each individual seller before receiving telemarketing or advertising robocalls, and mandated that such calls be logically and topically associated with the interaction that prompted the consent.
25:02
Fred
Sabiha, thank you so much for joining a supplemental addition to our previous podcast that we recorded. Obviously, in the interim between that podcast and today, there was a massive ruling by the 11th Circuit Court and the decision to vacate the rules that we discussed in the previous podcast on businesses, consumers and telemarketing industry.
Could you elaborate a little bit on that ruling and its effect on the marketplace?
Sabiha
Yes, of course. Basically, you know, what that ruling means is the 1 to 1 rule is no longer in effect. And as well as the anything regarding to what was addressed regarding things being logically or topically, all of that’s been removed, this rule can no longer be reinstated under the TCPA.
25:47
It’s a tremendous victory, for the industry. And it’s super exciting. You know, it gives it gives all these businesses that were in tremendous threat not being able to communicate with consumers, legitimately. They weren’t given the opportunity to scale their business during this time. And I feel like now everyone can, you know, feel tremendous relief and excitement to just kind of get back out there and grow again and be excited.
So yay, very, very happy!
26:19
Fred
Great to hear, so specifically for all these I mean, it was probably a considerable amount of expenditures made by companies in resources to address this, right? And it seems like in one decision, suddenly all that is no longer valid and no longer needed is that is that correct? Like in terms of like if I’m owning a company that has a call center, do I have to even worry about this anymore?
Sabiha
I think that people should still be very aware of what we all went through, and the different things that we had to build and put into place. If this rule did go through, you know, last minute as of Friday, right, we would all be in a very different place today.
27:00
So I do think that the way that company has had to evolve and pivot and, you know, work, work, you know, many, many hours and rewrite agreements and terms and conditions and privacy policies with their legal teams.
I think it just allows businesses to be more aware of their business and how they’re running it and what they need to do and the decisions they want to make moving forward with this happening. I still think that, you know, it shouldn’t be the wild, wild West. I do think that we should really look at this as a learning opportunity that he has what has already transpired.
27:38
There’s already been a lot of hurt, a lot of hit from this, and there would have been a lot more. So I still think that a lot of the tools, a lot of the different things that had to be thought out from a technology and lead transfer perspective and paying posts and all these new technologies that companies really didn’t want to deal with.
Now they know more about it, now they’re more, you know, informed. And I do think it will change businesses moving forward. And I’m excited to see what happens.
28:08
Fred
How do you see the ruling shaping future regulations or legal challenges around telemarketing and consumer consent? Under the TCPA?
Sabiha
You know, that’s not really a question I can say that I can answer very clearly today. I feel like right now everyone’s still just kind of feeling a sigh of relief and just kind of wants to build businesses and drive traffic and calls and leads for their buyers. But just be really thoughtful of the rules and be really thoughtful of your consumers. And I think as long as, you know, you’re very clear on where you’re buying traffic and very clear on how you’re selling traffic and selling calls and your, you know, always abiding by all the rules and following rules and regulations, like, let’s just hope that, you know, new changes and new rules don’t come into play that can hit us again in the future.
28:56
So I think it’s really just everyone needs to just, you know, be an “A” player and just have a have a clean, transparent and solid business in place. So we all can kind of continue to kind of get back up and rebuild again.
Fred
Sabiha I can’t thank you enough for jumping back on and discussing the ramifications of this ruling from last Friday.
I really appreciate your time. You’ve already gave us so much time on your your previous appearance, and I think, you know, this is a really good addendum to our podcast. And I think everything you said in the previous one is still important. And in in retrospect, I think we did need to have this addendum just due to the, the massive ruling and the effect that’s going to have on our space.
29:37
Sabiha
Exactly. We can’t assume that things like this can happen again, right? We all just need to make sure that we’re being our best selves every day and building the best businesses that we can. So that’s my advice and thank you so much for having me. It’s been a real pleasure.
Fred
Thank you. One more question for you. Where can people they want to learn more about what you’re doing or find you? Where’s the best place for them to go to learn more about your your speaking engagements and everything that is going on with you?
30:05
Sabiha
Oh yeah. I’m generally speaking, I don’t love social media, but I do really love LinkedIn and I do say pretty up to date there. So you can find me on LinkedIn. And generally anything that I’m involved in from a webinar, a podcast or anything important I feel I need to say out to the world will exist on LinkedIn.
So that’s a great place to find me – so thank you so much.
Fred
Thank you Sabiha, I can’t thank you enough for your time. Have a fantastic week.
Sabiha
Thank you.
30:33
Alex
Thanks for listening to Informed Insights. To learn more or listen to another episode, please visit Enformion.com.
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